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Ron Rosenfeld
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:57 am
Guest
I have an option to prepay my ISP bill. $419.40 for one year, versus
$39.95 per month for 12 months.

What is the best way to figure the advantage/disadvantage of prepaying?
--ron

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joetaxpayer
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:29 am
Guest
Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

Quote:
I have an option to prepay my ISP bill. $419.40 for one year, versus
$39.95 per month for 12 months.

What is the best way to figure the advantage/disadvantage of prepaying?
--ron

Well, you can do a net present value of each payment, and calculate the
'return' on your $419.40.

Or I can multiply, see you are paying $419.40 instead of $479.40. Since
the average of you payment stream would be six months, it seems a 14%
return for 6 months, or nearly 28% per year. This is 'back of the
napkin', but close enough for your question. I'd do the above NPV a bit
later. ( I am covered in paint right now, and this is my break)

Joe

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Ron Rosenfeld
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:29 am
Guest
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:29:24 -0500, joetaxpayer <joetaxpayer@nospam.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Well, you can do a net present value of each payment, and calculate the
'return' on your $419.40.

Or I can multiply, see you are paying $419.40 instead of $479.40. Since
the average of you payment stream would be six months, it seems a 14%
return for 6 months, or nearly 28% per year. This is 'back of the
napkin', but close enough for your question. I'd do the above NPV a bit
later. ( I am covered in paint right now, and this is my break)

Joe

Yes, I did the NPV calculation and got around 28%. I also used Excel's
XIRR function and got closer to 35%.

Your back of the napkin answer, though, is more than close enough to
convince me that it is a worthwhile "investment".

Thanks.
--ron

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to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
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John A. Weeks III
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:43 am
Guest
In article <su9s949up4otin9utd21aluk27j6ueeg0r@4ax.com>,
Ron Rosenfeld <ronrosenfeld@nospam.org> wrote:

Quote:
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:29:24 -0500, joetaxpayer <joetaxpayer@nospam.com
wrote:

Well, you can do a net present value of each payment, and calculate the
'return' on your $419.40.

Or I can multiply, see you are paying $419.40 instead of $479.40. Since
the average of you payment stream would be six months, it seems a 14%
return for 6 months, or nearly 28% per year. This is 'back of the
napkin', but close enough for your question. I'd do the above NPV a bit
later. ( I am covered in paint right now, and this is my break)

Joe

Yes, I did the NPV calculation and got around 28%. I also used Excel's
XIRR function and got closer to 35%.

Your back of the napkin answer, though, is more than close enough to
convince me that it is a worthwhile "investment".

Even if it isn't worthwhile from the NPV point of view, it is from
the time point of view. That is 11 payments that you don't have
to worry about getting lost, writing checks, getting mishandled,
or whatever. I'll take that time savings and reduction in worry
any day of the week.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

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Ron Rosenfeld
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:22 am
Guest
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 22:43:45 -0500, "John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Even if it isn't worthwhile from the NPV point of view, it is from
the time point of view. That is 11 payments that you don't have
to worry about getting lost, writing checks, getting mishandled,
or whatever. I'll take that time savings and reduction in worry
any day of the week.

That could be an issue for some, and would be for me if I were still
mailing paper checks. But I bank through USAA bank. They have free bill
paying over the Internet and I can set up a payment to repeat monthly, for
12 months, about as easily as I set up a single payment. Yes, I suppose
there is some chance of the payment getting lost, but I've been doing
electronic bill paying from my bank, using CheckFree, for many years and
checks getting lost in the mail is pretty darn rare. Most don't even go
through the mail, but get deposited directly into the biller's bank.
--ron

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to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
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Gil Faver
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:41 pm
Guest
"Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:su9s949up4otin9utd21aluk27j6ueeg0r@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:29:24 -0500, joetaxpayer <joetaxpayer@nospam.com
wrote:

Well, you can do a net present value of each payment, and calculate the
'return' on your $419.40.

Or I can multiply, see you are paying $419.40 instead of $479.40. Since
the average of you payment stream would be six months, it seems a 14%
return for 6 months, or nearly 28% per year. This is 'back of the
napkin', but close enough for your question. I'd do the above NPV a bit
later. ( I am covered in paint right now, and this is my break)

Joe

Yes, I did the NPV calculation and got around 28%. I also used Excel's
XIRR function and got closer to 35%.

Your back of the napkin answer, though, is more than close enough to
convince me that it is a worthwhile "investment".

Thanks.
--ron

who is the ISP? will they go broke before the 12 months is up?

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Ron Rosenfeld
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:18 pm
Guest
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:41:04 -0500, "Gil Faver" <rowdy'sboss@xxyz.com>
wrote:

Quote:
who is the ISP?

Pioneer Wireless

Quote:
will they go broke before the 12 months is up?

doubtful
--ron

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Don
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:45 pm
Guest
On 2008-08-10 07:41:04 -0700, "Gil Faver" <rowdy'sboss@xxyz.com> said:

Quote:
who is the ISP? will they go broke before the 12 months is up?

Actually, that is a good question, because people often worry a lot
about small risks and overlook big ones that are not in the current
news. Companies do go broke; banks and savings and loan associations
collapse, entire industries become obsolete, nations start wars, win
wars, and lose wars, and asteroids strike the earth.

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Ron Rosenfeld
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:34 am
Guest
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:16:29 -0500, Don <dwzimm@telus.net> wrote:

Quote:
nations start wars, win
wars, and lose wars, and asteroids strike the earth.

I don't plan for these kinds of events (nor for 500 year floods) Smile)

--ron

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Sgt.Sausage
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:45 am
Guest
"Gil Faver" <rowdy'sboss@xxyz.com> wrote in message
news:KlCnk.300028$SV4.231678@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quote:

who is the ISP? will they go broke before the 12 months is up?


A very valid question. We "locked in" and prepaid
a local propane vendor (secondary heat is propane
(primary wood/coal stove)). The vendor had been in
business as long as I've been in the area (near
30 years).

Next thing we knew, bankruptcy here they come !!

It's a bit over 2 years later and we're just now
getting correspondence from the bankruptcy folks,
and it looks like we're gonna get a whopping 15
to 20 cents on the dollar for our "prepay".

Businesses, even folks that have been in business
for literally decades, can knock off at any time.
I learned all about this one the hard way. Looks
like when the dust settles and we've got our
checks from the banruptcy trustee, we'll have
lost near $1,200 ... all in an effort to save
$200 with a prepaid plan.

Ya spends yer money and ya takes yer chances.

In this case, we lost.


.

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Chip
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:08 am
Guest
Quote:
A very valid question. We "locked in" and prepaid
a local propane vendor (secondary heat is propane
(primary wood/coal stove)). The vendor had been in
business as long as I've been in the area (near
30 years).

Next thing we knew, bankruptcy here they come !!

It's a bit over 2 years later and we're just now
getting correspondence from the bankruptcy folks,
and it looks like we're gonna get a whopping 15
to 20 cents on the dollar for our "prepay".

Businesses, even folks that have been in business
for literally decades, can knock off at any time.
I learned all about this one the hard way. Looks
like when the dust settles and we've got our
checks from the banruptcy trustee, we'll have
lost near $1,200 ... all in an effort to save
$200 with a prepaid plan.

Ya spends yer money and ya takes yer chances.

In this case, we lost.

Having worked for a furniture assembler that was approaching bankruptcy,
there are symptoms that signal the end is near. Customer Prepaids are
one of them. They need the cash NOW because their supplier will only
take cash after several checks and invoices have bounced. Short loads
are another. "I'll get you the rest of your order next week". That way
he can keep several customers somewhat happy. Slow delivery is another,
again because he doesn't have the ready cash to pay his supplier.

If you see or hear of any of the above, run the other way.

I got caught on a guarantee for an installed A/C unit. Big ad special-
and on the sales invoice- 10 yr guarantee on parts and labor. 2.5 yrs
later I learn that although he was a franchised dealer, it was HIS
guarantee and not the manufacturer. He and his business were nowhere to
be found.

Chip

--------------------------------------
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