On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------------------------------

   invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
   post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
   Elibraies(),  HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing,  On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
   Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
   GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

Maybe, because there's no money in  it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement?  So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
Elibraies(), HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing, On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

Maybe, because there's no money in it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your basement?

So, you need some government control and direction to invent it?

On Oct 9, 11:53 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------------------------------
invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
Elibraies(), HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing, On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

Maybe, because there's no money in it?
Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement?

Or maybe its just a hell of a lot harder to do.

So, you need some government control and direction to invent it?

Not to invent it so much as to make it viable.

I dont recall too many fission nukes were developed in someone's basement either.

Now, now, Rod. I've already warned you about agreeing with me.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081002/buffett_economy.html

Aw, c'mon Warren.  Don't you have enough money?  Do you really have to
tax the Hell out of the American people just to prop up your multi-
billion dollar empire?  Go screw yourself, Warren.  You are protecting
no one but yourself.

Warren Buffet is whining about the "financial crisis" which is
affecting no one but himself and his rich buddies.  The majority of
Americans are so poor now that they no longer have anything to lose,
and Warren knows it.  So, he is whining to the government.  "Give me
money!!  Give me money!!  I want my money!!"

Sorry, Warren.  You lose your money through inflation, or the markets
collapse, or both.  You have destroyed the American economy through
your greed and stupidity.  Live with it, Warren.  You earned it.

Mike wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:43:18 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

Mike wrote:
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:25:49 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

Windows is at worst a digression. This is like saying "Edison didn't
understand A/C, so he made no contribution to the science of
electricity."

no, it's like saying if gates had been around when radio & tv were
first invented his contribution would have been to monopolize the
methods of transmission
Sarnoff *did exactly that*, and a thousand stations bloomed.

no, the FCC controls the standards:

.. and Sarnoff (et al) wrote them.





"The National Television System Committee was established in 1940 by the
United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to resolve the
conflicts that arose between companies over the introduction of a
nationwide analog television system in the United States. In March 1941,
the committee issued a technical standard for black-and-white television
that built upon a 1936 recommendation made by the Radio Manufacturers
Association (RMA). ...
In January 1950 the Committee was reconstituted to standardize color
television. In December 1953, it unanimously approved what is now called
simply the NTSC color television standard (later defined as RS-170a). The
updated standard retained full backwards compatibility ("compatible
color") with older black-and-white television sets. Color information was
added to the black-and-white image by adding a color subcarrier of 4.5 ×
455/572 MHz (approximately 3.58 MHz) to the video signal. In order to
minimize interference between the chrominance signal and FM sound
carrier, the addition of the color subcarrier also required a slight
reduction of the frame rate from 30 frames per second to 30/1.001 (very
close to 29.97) frames per second, and changing the line frequency from
15,750 Hz to 15,734.26 Hz."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

That's nice. You do understand that in no case has the Federal
government ever had people who could engineer much if anything at all?

My statement stands.

such that only by buying a license to use a microsoft demodulator in
your tv or radio would you be able to receive broadcasts.
No, that literally is Qualcomm...

Uh... hello?

but that was back in the days when scientific advancements were put to
use for the public good before corporations started hijacking the
process to line their own pockets.

Look again. We need the hucksters, too. I don't care for it much myself,
but there it is.

i disagree, we don't need the hucksters.

Do you live in a jar?

what we need is corporations
competing legitimately on the merits of their products/services as
opposed to manipulating the legal system, circumventing antitrust laws
and locking in consumers with predatory monopoly practices (ie.
microsoft's sole business strategy).

*Sigh*. You know nothing of what actually occurs in the wild,
then. No dance before the tune, sir.

Or worse yet - let's set the price of software at "free" and see where
that gets you.

charging for software is like charging for math equations in a text
book.  what the software industry has devolved into is a taxing
authority by monopolizing commodity applications.
Meh. Office, for example, doesn't cost that much. Pure 'Doze, either.

the cost is astronomical, it's the amount of microsoft's total revenue,
hundreds of billions of dollars spent over the years for what?  commodity
software...

In context, it's SFA. Various IBM offerings (like os 360)
cost more, much more, than people were willing to pay.

if the industry ever got to the
point where there was real competition there would be no need to charge
for software because all the producers would be focused on adding value
as opposed to lock in.
Oh dear... I disagree. For one, "lock in" cuts both ways. For another,
"developers, developers, developers" - 'Doze simply has more and better
apps.

People don't want good software. They want what everybody else is
having.

Hello?





with the value-add model the paycheck comes from service & support,
actually helping people be more productive, as opposed to monopolistic
coercion.

It *can* work. It doesn't work very often. There's no good solution for
DAW in free software, the various embedded Linuces tend to have - *tend*
to have - high TCO (although a few ucLinux packages don't ) and certain
comms packages are dismal (surprisingly). Not fit for production work, I
fear.

I've tried, believe me, and "free" just repeatedly fails. *Not always*..
But it's hard.

it's hard because of microsoft.

That is *moronic*. You cannot blame the exit-path on what
the exit-path *avoids*.

all of the formats for everything from
spreadsheets/wordprocessing to audio/video have to be reverse engineered
from the constantly changing assortment that microsoft puts out to coerce
continuous upgrades and to make it at as difficult as possible for those
groups trying to establish standards that would be for the benefit of
everyone.

Can't go over it, better go around it.

Except *they don't*. Which is my point. Trying to fight culture with
knives... isn't going to work very well.

Ooooh... my knife is *sharp*. Yeah, so what?



(BTW I do actually offer a free software package - a niche thing that's
had a handful of takers. Works great, less filling. Runs on 'Doze. And I
*HAVE* to have grep/tcl/which/other script pipes/languages to do
anything on a 'Doze box:)

-

Les Cargill- Hide quoted text -

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- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Oct 9, 1:11 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 10:24 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­--------------------------------

   invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
   post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
   Elibraies(),  HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing,  On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
   Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
   GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

  Since controlled nuclear fusion is just like cold fusion.
  It belongs in the idiot department of *CHEMISTRY* not *ENGINEERING*.
  Since the engineers make A.I. Adaptive PV Cell Arrays, Adaptive
piezo,
  laser-guided lasers, post GM Holograms, post Ford batteries, post
neandtheral robotics,
  Cruise Missiles, AAVs, AUVs,  risc++,  Post AT&T fiber optics,
  Elibraries, Blogs, On-Line-Publlishing, On-Line-Banking, GPS, neo
wind energy,
  HDTV, CD+rw, DVD-stack, XML, Optical Computers, and USB,
  rather than idiot G.E. philosopers.

Maybe, because there's no money in  it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement?  So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Splendid, lets get rid of these moronic engineers and invest in
Chemistry and Physics.

   Well, you're seeing the only thing real *ENGINEERS* invest in
retarded *PHYSICS*.,
   which is post-AT&T fiber optics, post-ford batteries, post GM
Holograms,
   XML, On-Line-Banking, On-Line Publishing, laser-guided lasers, CD
+rw, DVD-stack,
   HDTV, Optical Computers,  Adaptive PV Cells, Adaptive Piezo, All-In-
One Printers,
   USB, and  Cruise Missiles.
   Since they don't call Physicists imbecile IBM mathematicians, for
no reason.

  Good point.  We've had quite enough of stupid,



greedy engineers building devices to steal money and kill people.
That is, quite obviously, all engineers know how to do.  Thanks for
the feedback.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The attachment/link you have provide is an interesting summary
of present day events in the financial markets and the actions
being taken by the government, regulators and the investors.

I find more reason to agree with Warren Buffet's views and the
investment decisions and actions he has taken in recent times.

As investors we are expected to invest at this
stage of a market's cycle or soon hereafter;

however most if not all of us realize that without government intervention
the economic scenario would be very bleak for the average Joe and
Jane, including job losses for them over a period of time.

You would appreciate that if the coporates were not to get timely
support while the banks in general are unwilling to come forward;
then without working capital their operations would just about stop.
So, presently you only see corporate names that are reported
to be effected with this financial market drawdown. However,
if this were to continue unattended then it would have a further
adverse effect on the economy in general and across more
than one industry and service group classification.

If not right away, one may expect investors to start and/or
restart investing in the stock markets. But all this would
only be after a ceratin amount of concerted effort on the
part of the government and regulator become visible.

Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081002/buffett_economy.html

Aw, c'mon Warren. Don't you have enough money? Do you really have to
tax the Hell out of the American people just to prop up your multi-
billion dollar empire? Go screw yourself, Warren. You are protecting
no one but yourself.

Warren Buffet is whining about the "financial crisis" which is
affecting no one but himself and his rich buddies. The majority of
Americans are so poor now that they no longer have anything to lose,
and Warren knows it. So, he is whining to the government. "Give me
money!! Give me money!! I want my money!!"

Sorry, Warren. You lose your money through inflation, or the markets
collapse, or both. You have destroyed the American economy through
your greed and stupidity. Live with it, Warren. You earned it.

Mike wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:26:50 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

Mike wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:43:18 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

Mike wrote:
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:25:49 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:

Windows is at worst a digression. This is like saying "Edison
didn't understand A/C, so he made no contribution to the science
of electricity."


no, it's like saying if gates had been around when radio & tv were
first invented his contribution would have been to monopolize the
methods of transmission
Sarnoff *did exactly that*, and a thousand stations bloomed.


no, the FCC controls the standards:

.. and Sarnoff (et al) wrote them.



so? the point is that NTSC is not a proprietary standard

It was developed 100% by people working for Sarnoff. It might be the
single
biggest leap in electronics transmission of its time. It packed amazing
amounts of data into a small space, well ahead of even the electronics
to support it.

Have you ever seen a vertical hold knob on a TV? No? The vertical hold
knob was there because of thermal oscillator drift before there were
PLLs. You had to manually tune the oscillator from a knob on the front
of the set. We used to call it "the flippin' knob" because the frames of
the picture would roll vertically until you stopped it with the knob.

The standard was well in advance of *component level support*. And a
million companies bloomed from it.

and there's no
monopoly tax being charged to everyone for a license to use the
standard.

Sure there is. You just don't see it because it's not explicit.

What was
RCA worth in 1960? Who was the dominant player in TV technology? RCA.

NTSC is a masterpiece - shame it's dying in February. But it was 100%
developed in RCA laboratories, and it took a very long time for others
to catch up to RCA.

it makes for a level playing field for all competitors as opposed to
one company having an unfair advantage of a monopoly over a standard
that everyone uses.



*All* standards are privately developed, and *all* standards are
developed with an eye towards competitive advantage.

Go grep the company names on the IETF standards documents. The name
"Cisco" will figure quite prominently.

"The National Television System Committee was established in 1940 by
the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to resolve
the conflicts that arose between companies over the introduction of a
nationwide analog television system in the United States. In March
1941, the committee issued a technical standard for black-and-white
television that built upon a 1936 recommendation made by the Radio
Manufacturers Association (RMA). ...
In January 1950 the Committee was reconstituted to standardize color
television. In December 1953, it unanimously approved what is now
called simply the NTSC color television standard (later defined as
RS-170a). The updated standard retained full backwards compatibility
("compatible color") with older black-and-white television sets.
Color information was added to the black-and-white image by adding a
color subcarrier of 4.5 × 455/572 MHz (approximately 3.58 MHz) to the
video signal. In order to minimize interference between the
chrominance signal and FM sound carrier, the addition of the color
subcarrier also required a slight reduction of the frame rate from 30
frames per second to 30/1.001 (very close to 29.97) frames per
second, and changing the line frequency from 15,750 Hz to 15,734.26
Hz."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC



That's nice. You do understand that in no case has the Federal
government ever had people who could engineer much if anything at all?

My statement stands.


Weakly, if at all.

It was in the enlightened self interest of Sarnoff et
al to publish the standard *as* a standard to... achieve lock-in.

Uh oh. Now how did that work again? Who was the dominant player in
television in 1960 again?

So of what value would 1000 different television protocols have been?

None. That's what.



yes and it does a fine job of refuting a point that has nothing to do
with anything i've said (see above).



Aw sheesh. Ignore it at your peril. The marketplace *provided incentives
for otherwise intolerably arrogant people to play nice*. They didn't do
it out of altruism, boy.



such that only by buying a license to use a microsoft demodulator
in your tv or radio would you be able to receive broadcasts.
No, that literally is Qualcomm...


Uh... hello?



*Knock knock*...


my comment was about when radio & tv were first invented so i'll reply
to your qualcomm comment right after you explain how a company founded
in 1985 has anything to do with it.




Qualcomm hold patents on just bout every wireless protocol in use today.
Some are open, some are not.

I dunno... maybe there are... parallels or something.... ?

but that was back in the days when scientific advancements were put
to use for the public good before corporations started hijacking
the process to line their own pockets.


Look again. We need the hucksters, too. I don't care for it much
myself, but there it is.


i disagree, we don't need the hucksters.
Do you live in a jar?

what we need is corporations
competing legitimately on the merits of their products/services as
opposed to manipulating the legal system, circumventing antitrust
laws and locking in consumers with predatory monopoly practices (ie.
microsoft's sole business strategy).



*Sigh*. You know nothing of what actually occurs in the wild, then. No
dance before the tune, sir.



if that's your defense for the hucksters then i rest my case.




Well, I'm not sure I can explain it to you if you're committed to
ignoring it. And that's fine. Suffice it to say that ten million
interested potential customers is a whole lot better than ten, a
thousand, ten thousand.

Especially for media tech, *mass* is interesting. Narrow isn't.

Or worse yet - let's set the price of software at "free" and see
where that gets you.
charging for software is like charging for math equations in a text
book. what the software industry has devolved into is a taxing
authority by monopolizing commodity applications.
Meh. Office, for example, doesn't cost that much. Pure 'Doze,
either.


the cost is astronomical, it's the amount of microsoft's total
revenue, hundreds of billions of dollars spent over the years for
what? commodity software...



In context, it's SFA. Various IBM offerings (like os 360) cost more,
much more, than people were willing to pay.




further ignore-izance...

if the industry ever got to the
point where there was real competition there would be no need to
charge for software because all the producers would be focused on
adding value as opposed to lock in.
Oh dear... I disagree. For one, "lock in" cuts both ways. For
another, "developers, developers, developers" - 'Doze simply has
more and better apps.

People don't want good software. They want what everybody else is
having.


Hello?



what? you expect me to respond to your statement:

"People don't want good software. They want what everybody else is
having."


Right.

ok, fine. my response is that the statement is ludicrous, i believe
people want great software but because of the microsoft monopoly they
are stuck with crap.




They want it. Otherwise you are submitting in front of everybody that
they somehow wandered zombie like under he pure personal charisma of
Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer to buy the stuff.

Hell, for all I know, the "crap" part made it "better" in terms of the
marketplace. After all, nobody wants to listen to those propeller heads,
do they?

(you should see where I am going with this..?)

with the value-add model the paycheck comes from service & support,
actually helping people be more productive, as opposed to
monopolistic coercion.



It *can* work. It doesn't work very often. There's no good solution
for DAW in free software, the various embedded Linuces tend to have
- *tend* to have - high TCO (although a few ucLinux packages don't )
and certain comms packages are dismal (surprisingly). Not fit for
production work, I fear.

I've tried, believe me, and "free" just repeatedly fails. *Not
always*. But it's hard.


it's hard because of microsoft.
That is *moronic*. You cannot blame the exit-path on what the
exit-path *avoids*.



if in order for a non-microsoft system to be usable for the average
person it must be able to interact seamlessly with microsoft formats
then, yes, there is no other place to put the blame for incompatibility
then on microsoft which is responsible for the ever-changing closed
(proprietary) formats and the relentless effort of preventing open
standards from being established.



:) You should actually blame the lousy formats on those who originated
them. M$ started Word outta a company called Samna ( which they
aquired). I once had to write a *parser* for the bloody things, and all
the docs were from Samna.

I honestly think that M$ doesn't *care* about open anything, they just
cared (past tense) about what they offered. There's no conspiracy, just
"WTF?" on their part. They didn't *think* about it.

all of the formats for everything from spreadsheets/wordprocessing to
audio/video have to be reverse engineered from the constantly
changing assortment that microsoft puts out to coerce continuous
upgrades and to make it at as difficult as possible for those groups
trying to establish standards that would be for the benefit of
everyone.


Can't go over it, better go around it.



it's the difference between doing what's in the best interest of
advancing technology for the benefit for everyone vs. the monopoly-
centric viewpoint of serving ones own interest at the expense of
everyone else.



But the people you are talking about have expanded the footprint of
technology more than Bell Labs itself.

Sword-swallowing at the dinner table isn't interesting. it's nauseating.
Sword-swallowing in the *circus* is interesting. I won't hold circus
builders in contempt, because they make sword swallowing entertainment
instead of vaguely unsettling.

The people who create the context in which a product is interesting are
just as responsible for the utility of the product as those who cerate
it outright.

Except *they don't*. Which is my point. Trying to fight culture with
knives... isn't going to work very well.

Ooooh... my knife is *sharp*. Yeah, so what?


(BTW I do actually offer a free software package - a niche thing
that's had a handful of takers. Works great, less filling. Runs on
'Doze. And I *HAVE* to have grep/tcl/which/other script
pipes/languages to do anything on a 'Doze box:)
-

Les Cargill

On Oct 9, 4:38 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:
On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Oct 9, 1:11 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 10:24 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­--------------------------------

invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
Elibraies(), HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing, On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something
really useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free
energy?

Since controlled nuclear fusion is just like cold fusion.
It belongs in the idiot department of *CHEMISTRY* not
*ENGINEERING*. Since the engineers make A.I. Adaptive PV Cell
Arrays, Adaptive piezo,
laser-guided lasers, post GM Holograms, post Ford batteries, post
neandtheral robotics,
Cruise Missiles, AAVs, AUVs, risc++, Post AT&T fiber optics,
Elibraries, Blogs, On-Line-Publlishing, On-Line-Banking, GPS, neo
wind energy,
HDTV, CD+rw, DVD-stack, XML, Optical Computers, and USB,
rather than idiot G.E. philosopers.

Maybe, because there's no money in it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement? So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Splendid, lets get rid of these moronic engineers and invest in
Chemistry and Physics.

Well, you're seeing the only thing real *ENGINEERS* invest in
retarded *PHYSICS*.,
which is post-AT&T fiber optics, post-ford batteries, post GM
Holograms,
XML, On-Line-Banking, On-Line Publishing, laser-guided lasers, CD
+rw, DVD-stack,
HDTV, Optical Computers, Adaptive PV Cells, Adaptive Piezo, All-In-
One Printers,
USB, and Cruise Missiles.
Since they don't call Physicists imbecile IBM mathematicians, for
no reason.

Good point. We've had quite enough of stupid,



greedy engineers building devices to steal money and kill people.
That is, quite obviously, all engineers know how to do. Thanks for
the feedback.

We need controlled nuclear fusion. Unlimited, clean energy.

The power to colonize the solar system and exploit the resources of outer space.

It is doable.

But, it isn't being done.

That is the problem.

On Oct 9, 4:38 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:





On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 9, 1:11 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 10:24 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­­--------------------------------

   invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
   post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
   Elibraies(),  HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing,  On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
   Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
   GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

  Since controlled nuclear fusion is just like cold fusion.
  It belongs in the idiot department of *CHEMISTRY* not *ENGINEERING*.
  Since the engineers make A.I. Adaptive PV Cell Arrays, Adaptive
piezo,
  laser-guided lasers, post GM Holograms, post Ford batteries, post
neandtheral robotics,
  Cruise Missiles, AAVs, AUVs,  risc++,  Post AT&T fiber optics,
  Elibraries, Blogs, On-Line-Publlishing, On-Line-Banking, GPS, neo
wind energy,
  HDTV, CD+rw, DVD-stack, XML, Optical Computers, and USB,
  rather than idiot G.E. philosopers.

Maybe, because there's no money in  it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement?  So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Splendid, lets get rid of these moronic engineers and invest in
Chemistry and Physics.

   Well, you're seeing the only thing real *ENGINEERS* invest in
retarded *PHYSICS*.,
   which is post-AT&T fiber optics, post-ford batteries, post GM
Holograms,
   XML, On-Line-Banking, On-Line Publishing, laser-guided lasers, CD
+rw, DVD-stack,
   HDTV, Optical Computers,  Adaptive PV Cells, Adaptive Piezo, All-In-
One Printers,
   USB, and  Cruise Missiles.
   Since they don't call Physicists imbecile IBM mathematicians, for
no reason.

  Good point.  We've had quite enough of stupid,

greedy engineers building devices to steal money and kill people.
That is, quite obviously, all engineers know how to do.  Thanks for
the feedback.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need controlled nuclear fusion.  Unlimited, clean energy.  The
power to colonize the solar system and exploit the resources of outer
space.  It is doable.  But, it isn't being done.  That is the problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 10, 11:18 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Oct 9, 4:38 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 9, 1:11 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 10:24 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape..net
wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­­­--------------------------------

   invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
   post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
   Elibraies(),  HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing,  On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
   Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
   GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

  Since controlled nuclear fusion is just like cold fusion.
  It belongs in the idiot department of *CHEMISTRY* not *ENGINEERING*.
  Since the engineers make A.I. Adaptive PV Cell Arrays, Adaptive
piezo,
  laser-guided lasers, post GM Holograms, post Ford batteries, post
neandtheral robotics,
  Cruise Missiles, AAVs, AUVs,  risc++,  Post AT&T fiber optics,
  Elibraries, Blogs, On-Line-Publlishing, On-Line-Banking, GPS, neo
wind energy,
  HDTV, CD+rw, DVD-stack, XML, Optical Computers, and USB,
  rather than idiot G.E. philosopers.

Maybe, because there's no money in  it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement?  So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Splendid, lets get rid of these moronic engineers and invest in
Chemistry and Physics.

   Well, you're seeing the only thing real *ENGINEERS* invest in
retarded *PHYSICS*.,
   which is post-AT&T fiber optics, post-ford batteries, post GM
Holograms,
   XML, On-Line-Banking, On-Line Publishing, laser-guided lasers, CD
+rw, DVD-stack,
   HDTV, Optical Computers,  Adaptive PV Cells, Adaptive Piezo, All-In-
One Printers,
   USB, and  Cruise Missiles.
   Since they don't call Physicists imbecile IBM mathematicians, for
no reason.

  Good point.  We've had quite enough of stupid,

greedy engineers building devices to steal money and kill people.
That is, quite obviously, all engineers know how to do.  Thanks for
the feedback.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need controlled nuclear fusion.  Unlimited, clean energy.  The
power to colonize the solar system and exploit the resources of outer
space.  It is doable.  But, it isn't being done.  That is the problem.- Hide quoted text -

  Well, that may or not be true, but you're still missing the point
that the
  A.I. parallel processors, multitaskers, fiber optics, CD, DVD, HDTV,
Elibraries, holograms,
  neo wind energy, neo solar energy, microwave ovens, biodiesel, GPS,
and
  modern robotics were all invented since the people in engineering
are still
  not going to wait a day for the blood-sucking tax-cranks running the
  power grid to come with a solution to anything.





- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
snip

You're missing the point.  Most "new" engineering technologies are
bells and whistles variants designed to make money and not to help
society.  Capitalism does not produce important new technologies, if
it can possibly avoid it.

It used to. Does that mean they're all done, or does it mean we've
forgotten how?

--
Les Cargill

On Oct 11, 12:02 pm, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
snip

You're missing the point.  Most "new" engineering technologies are
bells and whistles variants designed to make money and not to help
society.  Capitalism does not produce important new technologies, if
it can possibly avoid it.

It used to. Does that mean they're all done, or does it mean we've
forgotten how?

--
Les Cargill

Capitalism never produced important new technologies.  Why do you
think wars have been so critical in developing technology?  Because
the government takes over to achieve practical objectives, and greedy
businessmen aren't just trying to make a buck.  There's no money in
important new technologies.  They're too easy to steal.  The patents
are too easy to modify.  They cost too much money to develop.

On Oct 11, 12:55 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 11, 12:02 pm, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
snip
You're missing the point. Most "new" engineering technologies are
bells and whistles variants designed to make money and not to help
society. Capitalism does not produce important new technologies, if
it can possibly avoid it.
It used to. Does that mean they're all done, or does it mean we've
forgotten how?
--
Les Cargill
Capitalism never produced important new technologies. Why do you
think wars have been so critical in developing technology? Because
the government takes over to achieve practical objectives, and greedy
businessmen aren't just trying to make a buck. There's no money in
important new technologies. They're too easy to steal. The patents
are too easy to modify. They cost too much money to develop.

Finance Media Propaganda: "Why you're not rich!"

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/105934/10-Reasons-You're-Not-Rich

"Oh, you silly billy! It's all you're fault you're not a
millionaire! Millionaires are all wonderful people who are the true
paragons of society. If you're not a millionaire, you have no one to
blame but yourself. You are a bad person. You should be in prison.
You should be in jail. Or at the very least, you should starve and
have no health care. Because it's all your fault!"

Maybe, millionaires are just thieves, and the reason people are poor
is that society rewards greed instead of merit and true productivity?

You don't have to do anything useful to make money. You can just
steal, intimidate and manipulate.

On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
snip

You're missing the point. Most "new" engineering technologies are
bells and whistles variants designed to make money and not to help
society. Capitalism does not produce important new technologies, if
it can possibly avoid it.

Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:27 pm, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Oct 11, 12:55 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 11, 12:02 pm, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net"
zzbun...@netscape.net> <snip> You're missing the point. Most
"new" engineering technologies are bells and whistles variants
designed to make money and not to help society. Capitalism does
not produce important new technologies, if it can possibly avoid
it.
It used to. Does that mean they're all done, or does it mean we've
forgotten how?
--
Les Cargill
Capitalism never produced important new technologies. Why do you
think wars have been so critical in developing technology? Because
the government takes over to achieve practical objectives, and
greedy businessmen aren't just trying to make a buck. There's no
money in important new technologies. They're too easy to steal.
The patents are too easy to modify. They cost too much money to
develop.

Finance Media Propaganda: "Why you're not rich!"

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/105934/10-Reasons-....

"Oh, you silly billy! It's all you're fault you're not a
millionaire! Millionaires are all wonderful people who are the true
paragons of society. If you're not a millionaire, you have no one to
blame but yourself. You are a bad person. You should be in prison.
You should be in jail. Or at the very least, you should starve and
have no health care. Because it's all your fault!"

I know, I know.... it's the World Wide Rasslin' equivalent of
finance talk...

Even more ... bizarre... is the confluence of Christianity
and Capitalism we see, self-help "Gawd wants you to be rich"
proponed by those who have forgotten the size of an eye
of a needle*....

*and that story may be mistranslated or metaphoric - the Eye
of a Needle is alleged to be a gate somewhere in the Middle
East around Jerusalem or something...

"Dude, you like money *too*?!? We should hang out sometime." -
Frito, "Idiocracy"....

Maybe, millionaires are just thieves, and the reason people are poor
is that society rewards greed instead of merit and true
productivity?

We make The System. We all have our Rich and Famous fantasy. If
there is a problem, it is that there's not much feedback from Reality
that laziness or stupidity might be Sinful in the Eyes of Nature - we
cannot tell the difference between faux productivity and
the real deal.

Meanwhile, all we really need appears as if by magic. This is an
artifact of the monstrous leverage in production we have - if
2% produce all our raw food stocks, the other 98% can be forgiven
for seeing that as magical.

You don't have to do anything useful to make money. You can just
steal, intimidate and manipulate.

Sure. All you have to do then is accept as given that you're
useless, or lie to yourself about it. I have been there when this
collapses in on people. It's not pretty.

My opinion? The species has been pushing a rock up a hill
forever. We might have reached a plateau. So rock-pushing
isn't quite the thing it used to be....
Don't worry Les.  Bin Laden will save us.  Remember: anarchists are the midwives of Communism.

bin Laden is nothing like an anarchist.

And nothing scares Capitalists into being socially responsible better than Communists.

Gets sillier by the minute.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:





On Oct 10, 11:18 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 9, 4:38 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 9, 1:11 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 10:24 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­­­­--------------------------------

   invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
   post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers, risc++,
parallel processors,
   Elibraies(),  HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing,  On-Line-Banking,
CD+rw, DVD-stack,
   Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
   GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something really
useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free energy?

  Since controlled nuclear fusion is just like cold fusion.
  It belongs in the idiot department of *CHEMISTRY* not *ENGINEERING*.
  Since the engineers make A.I. Adaptive PV Cell Arrays, Adaptive
piezo,
  laser-guided lasers, post GM Holograms, post Ford batteries, post
neandtheral robotics,
  Cruise Missiles, AAVs, AUVs,  risc++,  Post AT&T fiber optics,
  Elibraries, Blogs, On-Line-Publlishing, On-Line-Banking, GPS, neo
wind energy,
  HDTV, CD+rw, DVD-stack, XML, Optical Computers, and USB,
  rather than idiot G.E. philosopers.

Maybe, because there's no money in  it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement?  So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Splendid, lets get rid of these moronic engineers and invest in
Chemistry and Physics.

   Well, you're seeing the only thing real *ENGINEERS* invest in
retarded *PHYSICS*.,
   which is post-AT&T fiber optics, post-ford batteries, post GM
Holograms,
   XML, On-Line-Banking, On-Line Publishing, laser-guided lasers, CD
+rw, DVD-stack,
   HDTV, Optical Computers,  Adaptive PV Cells, Adaptive Piezo, All-In-
One Printers,
   USB, and  Cruise Missiles.
   Since they don't call Physicists imbecile IBM mathematicians, for
no reason.

  Good point.  We've had quite enough of stupid,

greedy engineers building devices to steal money and kill people.
That is, quite obviously, all engineers know how to do.  Thanks for
the feedback.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need controlled nuclear fusion.  Unlimited, clean energy.  The
power to colonize the solar system and exploit the resources of outer
space.  It is doable.  But, it isn't being done.  That is the problem.- Hide quoted text -

  Well, that may or not be true, but you're still missing the point
that the
  A.I. parallel processors, multitaskers, fiber optics, CD, DVD, HDTV,
Elibraries, holograms,
  neo wind energy, neo solar energy, microwave ovens, biodiesel, GPS,
and
  modern robotics were all invented since the people in engineering
are still
  not going to wait a day for the blood-sucking tax-cranks running the
  power grid to come with a solution to anything.

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're missing the point.  Most "new" engineering technologies are
bells and whistles variants designed to make money and not to help
society.

it can possibly avoid it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:
On Oct 10, 11:18 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Oct 9, 4:38 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 5:24 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 9, 1:11 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
wrote:

On Oct 9, 10:24 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:37 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net"
zzbun...@netscape.net> wrote:

On Oct 8, 1:06 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­­­--------------------------------

invented the post-GE fiber optics, post-GM Holograms, post-AT&T
booking,
post-Ford Batteries, Phishing filters, Optical Computers,
risc++, parallel processors,
Elibraies(), HDTV[], Blogs, On-Line-Publishing,
On-Line-Banking, CD+rw, DVD-stack,
Linux, All-In-One Printers, AUVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, laser-
guided lasers,
GPS, AAVs, AUVs, XML, and USB

So, why haven't these engineering geniuses invented something
really useful, like controlled nuclear fusion -- unlimited free
energy?

Since controlled nuclear fusion is just like cold fusion.
It belongs in the idiot department of *CHEMISTRY* not
*ENGINEERING*. Since the engineers make A.I. Adaptive PV Cell
Arrays, Adaptive piezo,
laser-guided lasers, post GM Holograms, post Ford batteries, post
neandtheral robotics,
Cruise Missiles, AAVs, AUVs, risc++, Post AT&T fiber optics,
Elibraries, Blogs, On-Line-Publlishing, On-Line-Banking, GPS, neo
wind energy,
HDTV, CD+rw, DVD-stack, XML, Optical Computers, and USB,
rather than idiot G.E. philosopers.

Maybe, because there's no money in it?

Or, maybe, because it's too big and too dangerous to do in your
basement? So, you need some government control and direction to
invent it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Splendid, lets get rid of these moronic engineers and invest in
Chemistry and Physics.

Well, you're seeing the only thing real *ENGINEERS* invest in
retarded *PHYSICS*.,
which is post-AT&T fiber optics, post-ford batteries, post GM
Holograms,
XML, On-Line-Banking, On-Line Publishing, laser-guided lasers, CD
+rw, DVD-stack,
HDTV, Optical Computers, Adaptive PV Cells, Adaptive Piezo, All-In-
One Printers,
USB, and Cruise Missiles.
Since they don't call Physicists imbecile IBM mathematicians, for
no reason.

Good point. We've had quite enough of stupid,

greedy engineers building devices to steal money and kill people.
That is, quite obviously, all engineers know how to do. Thanks for
the feedback.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need controlled nuclear fusion. Unlimited, clean energy. The
power to colonize the solar system and exploit the resources of
outer
space. It is doable. But, it isn't being done. That is the
problem.- Hide quoted text -

Well, that may or not be true, but you're still missing the point
that the
A.I. parallel processors, multitaskers, fiber optics, CD, DVD, HDTV,
Elibraries, holograms,
neo wind energy, neo solar energy, microwave ovens, biodiesel, GPS,
and
modern robotics were all invented since the people in engineering
are still
not going to wait a day for the blood-sucking tax-cranks running the
power grid to come with a solution to anything.

You're missing the point.

Most "new" engineering technologies are bells and whistles
variants designed to make money and not to help society.

Capitalism does not produce important new technologies, if it can possibly avoid it.

On Oct 11, 12:02 pm, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:25 pm, "zzbun...@netscape.net" <zzbun...@netscape.net
snip

You're missing the point. Most "new" engineering technologies are
bells and whistles variants designed to make money and not to help
society. Capitalism does not produce important new technologies, if
it can possibly avoid it.

It used to. Does that mean they're all done, or does it mean we've forgotten how?

Capitalism never produced important new technologies.

Why do you think wars have been so critical in developing technology?

Because the government takes over to achieve practical objectives,
and greedy businessmen aren't just trying to make a buck.

There's no money in important new technologies. They're too easy to steal.

The patents are too easy to modify.

They cost too much money to develop.