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karsan2007@gmail.com
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:02 pm
Guest
I also have a savings account. My bank has a offer that you sign up
and use you debit card and they will transfer the change to your
savings account and my bank transfers money every month to my savings
I saved $6.40 already this month so far.

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Default User
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:00 pm
Guest
karsan2007@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
I also have a savings account. My bank has a offer that you sign up
and use you debit card and they will transfer the change to your
savings account and my bank transfers money every month to my savings
I saved $6.40 already this month so far.

That never really makes a lot of sense to me. All it's doing is moving
your own money from checking to savings. You could do that. Now, some
of the credit card ones match the change (at least initially), but I
still think you'd be better off with a good rewards card.




Brian

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Elizabeth Richardson
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:00 pm
Guest
<karsan2007@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06811baa-8690-41ab-8b99-b4cf2f1a60ed@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...

Quote:
I also have a savings account. My bank has a offer that you sign up
and use you debit card

I don't understand the point of a debit card. Why not use a credit card and
use someone else's money for a month? If you have the money to pay for
whatever anyway, you'll pay the balance in full at the end of the month, so
there's no interest charge. Use some kind of rewards card and get additional
benefit(s).

Elizabeth Richardson

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Default User
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:55 pm
Guest
Elizabeth Richardson wrote:

Quote:

karsan2007@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06811baa-8690-41ab-8b99-b4cf2f1a60ed@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com
...

I also have a savings account. My bank has a offer that you sign up
and use you debit card

I don't understand the point of a debit card. Why not use a credit
card and use someone else's money for a month? If you have the money
to pay for whatever anyway, you'll pay the balance in full at the end
of the month, so there's no interest charge. Use some kind of rewards
card and get additional benefit(s).

For those who can handle their finances (that's all of us here, right?)
that's the best policy. I use my cards for everything I reasonably can.
Besides the cash back, you get a list of your monthly expenditures.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

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joetaxpayer
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:55 pm
Guest
Quote:
I don't understand the point of a debit card. Why not use a credit card and
use someone else's money for a month? If you have the money to pay for
whatever anyway, you'll pay the balance in full at the end of the month, so
there's no interest charge. Use some kind of rewards card and get additional
benefit(s).

Elizabeth Richardson

Of course, I agree with you. But every time I bring this up, almost
exactly as you did, I find people quoting the likes of Dave Ramsey,
"responsible use of credit cards doesn't exist." I offer back that as
you suggest, I have a cash back card which puts 2% into a 529 account.
That account now has just over $8000 as my wife and I both can run some
reimbursed business expenses through it. Never paid 1 cent of interest
and the card has no annual fee. I'm then told that psychologically, it's
observed that people spend more on credit cards than with cash. That's
when I give up, but my view remains unchanged.
The cards also offer minor perks such as extended warranty, doubling the
manufacturer warranty up to an extra year.
Not to mention, how do you reserve a hotel room or car when traveling
without a CC?

Joe

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Douglas Johnson
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:51 pm
Guest
"Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Quote:
I don't understand the point of a debit card. Why not use a credit card and
use someone else's money for a month? If you have the money to pay for
whatever anyway, you'll pay the balance in full at the end of the month, so
there's no interest charge. Use some kind of rewards card and get additional
benefit(s).

I know someone who has trouble managing a credit card. By using a debit card,
they make sure they stay out of trouble. It's a mind game, but whatever
works...

-- Doug

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Chip
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:10 am
Guest
Elizabeth Richardson wrote:

Quote:
I also have a savings account. My bank has a offer that you sign up
and use you debit card

I don't understand the point of a debit card. Why not use a credit card and
use someone else's money for a month? If you have the money to pay for
whatever anyway, you'll pay the balance in full at the end of the month, so
there's no interest charge. Use some kind of rewards card and get additional
benefit(s).


There is a gas chain near me, Arco, that has about the cheapest gas on a

regular basis. BUT they require a debit card or cash, no credit cards.
But the kicker is that the gas pump is essentially an ATM for the
debit card and they charge you a fee for the use of the ATM. Once was
enough for me, never again.

I totally agree with you. Now if I could get my Reward Points "rewards"
w/o jumping through PITA hoops, my life would be serene.

Chip

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Default User
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:15 am
Guest
joetaxpayer wrote:


Quote:
Of course, I agree with you. But every time I bring this up, almost
exactly as you did, I find people quoting the likes of Dave Ramsey,
"responsible use of credit cards doesn't exist."

People are entitled to their opinions, but those are just that.
opinions.

Quote:
Not to mention, how
do you reserve a hotel room or car when traveling without a CC?

Debit cards can be used for such purposes, I believe. I recently rented
a car online, and there was a choice for debit cards. As I recall,
there would be extra steps if one went that route, but as I was using
Discover I didn't investigate.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

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Default User
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:08 am
Guest
Chip wrote:

Quote:
I totally agree with you. Now if I could get my Reward Points
"rewards" w/o jumping through PITA hoops, my life would be serene.

What card do you have, and what hoops?




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

--------------------------------------
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John A. Weeks III
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:55 am
Guest
In article <6gm699Fglnr2U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
joetaxpayer wrote:


Of course, I agree with you. But every time I bring this up, almost
exactly as you did, I find people quoting the likes of Dave Ramsey,
"responsible use of credit cards doesn't exist."

People are entitled to their opinions, but those are just that.
opinions.

There are facts to back up that opinion, however. Ramsey often
quotes a study that shows that people spend considerably more
when using a credit card as opposed to when spending cash. I know
that I do, and I am much more frugal when using cash. We also
see record levels of bankruptcy and foreclosure, which means
that many people are having problems managing their finances.

A credit card is a tool. It can be a high risk tool in some
hands, and a low risk tool in the hands of other people. Just
like you shouldn't run a chop saw without a bit of training, you
shouldn't be using credit cards if you cannot control your spending.

Quote:
Not to mention, how
do you reserve a hotel room or car when traveling without a CC?

Debit cards can be used for such purposes, I believe. I recently rented
a car online, and there was a choice for debit cards. As I recall,
there would be extra steps if one went that route, but as I was using
Discover I didn't investigate.

In my travels, I have been able to reserve a hotel room without
paying for it. If you are going to gaurantee the room for late
arrival, then you need some kind of card. But it is far from
impossible to reserve a room with no cards.

I have also seen people get rental cars without a credit card.
You might not get a Hertz or Avis car that way, but there are
local rental places in most bigger cities that will rent for
cash. If worse comes to worse, you can rent a van or pickup
truck from U-Haul for cash.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III           612-720-2854            john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications                         http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

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Default User
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:34 am
Guest
John A. Weeks III wrote:

Quote:
In article <6gm699Fglnr2U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:

joetaxpayer wrote:

Dave Ramsey, "responsible use of credit cards doesn't exist."

People are entitled to their opinions, but those are just that.
opinions.

There are facts to back up that opinion, however. Ramsey often
quotes a study that shows that people spend considerably more
when using a credit card as opposed to when spending cash.

I think probably some (maybe most) people do. But I doubt you can prove
that all do.

Quote:
I know
that I do, and I am much more frugal when using cash.

I'm naturally frugal (sounds better than tightfisted) and the means of
payment has little impact on how I buy things. I don't buy anything
unless I've convinced myself that I need it. And I'm often a hard sell
on that score.

Quote:
We also
see record levels of bankruptcy and foreclosure, which means
that many people are having problems managing their finances.

But not everyone that uses one gets into such trouble. You could use
that say, "there's no such thing as responsible use of home loans."
Some people probably agree with that.

Quote:
A credit card is a tool. It can be a high risk tool in some
hands, and a low risk tool in the hands of other people. Just
like you shouldn't run a chop saw without a bit of training, you
shouldn't be using credit cards if you cannot control your spending.

That's right. That's why I object to the blanket statement that
"responsible use of credit cards doesn't exist." There are people who
use cards day in and out, pay the bills on time, don't alter their
spending due the access to credit, etc., etc. One would have come up
with a definition of "responsible" that was so far outside the
mainstream as to be meaningless to justify the statement.

[remainder snipped as I didn't have any comment]




Brian

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joetaxpayer
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:36 am
Guest
John A. Weeks III wrote:

Quote:
In article <6gm699Fglnr2U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:


joetaxpayer wrote:



Of course, I agree with you. But every time I bring this up, almost
exactly as you did, I find people quoting the likes of Dave Ramsey,
"responsible use of credit cards doesn't exist."

People are entitled to their opinions, but those are just that.
opinions.


There are facts to back up that opinion, however. Ramsey often
quotes a study that shows that people spend considerably more
when using a credit card as opposed to when spending cash. I know
that I do, and I am much more frugal when using cash. We also
see record levels of bankruptcy and foreclosure, which means
that many people are having problems managing their finances.

A credit card is a tool. It can be a high risk tool in some
hands, and a low risk tool in the hands of other people. Just
like you shouldn't run a chop saw without a bit of training, you
shouldn't be using credit cards if you cannot control your spending.

You are right, John. I think Elizabeth (I hope I am not attributing a
thought she didn't mean to imply) and I were both thinking that if one
has the cash to use a debit card, they may already have the discipline
to spend only what they will pay at month's end.
Does Ramsey's study differentiate between the 'pay in full' customers vs
the ones who carry a balance?

Joe

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Elizabeth Richardson
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:38 am
Guest
"joetaxpayer" <joetaxpayer@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:-7ydnZxAgMqbnDvVnZ2dnUVZ_oTinZ2d@comcast.com...
Quote:


You are right, John. I think Elizabeth (I hope I am not attributing a
thought she didn't mean to imply) and I were both thinking that if one has
the cash to use a debit card, they may already have the discipline to
spend only what they will pay at month's end.

Actually, I'd take it a step further. Not only do I not understand the logic
of using a debit card, I'd take it a step further and say that I don't
understand the logic of spending money you can't afford to spend and don't
have. It's not that I can't read, and therefore don't know that people, in
fact, DO spend money they don't have, it's just that I don't understand it.
I also don't understand diabetics who eat donuts and don't get exercise, but
that's probably off topic. Yes, I occasionally do stuff that's probably not
in my best interest, ( too much wine on a girl's night out comes to mind),
but I don't understand people *consistently* doing things that are not in
their own interest. Using a debit card is probably the least of these, but
it makes the list and is on topic in this forum.

Elizabeth Richardson

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Elizabeth Richardson
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:40 am
Guest
"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6gm1joFgk70hU4@mid.individual.net...
Quote:

For those who can handle their finances (that's all of us here, right?)
that's the best policy. I use my cards for everything I reasonably can.
Besides the cash back, you get a list of your monthly expenditures.


Brian, I think my point is that people who are using a debit card instead of
a credit card are not adequately handling their finances. A debit card in
the hands of the end user makes no sense whatsoever. The fee (to the
merchant) for accepting a debit card is higher than for a credit card - at
least that's how it was when they first came out, perhaps things have
changed since I was in the loop on that stuff. The banks want you to use it
because it increases their bottom line, but it seems to me that it has only
increased prices for everything.

Elizabeth Richardson

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Chip
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:30 am
Guest
Default User wrote:
Quote:
Chip wrote:

I totally agree with you. Now if I could get my Reward Points
"rewards" w/o jumping through PITA hoops, my life would be serene.

What card do you have, and what hoops?


Visa Platinum from my local Credit Union @6.9% w/no annual fee. Pay it

off every month.

We usually use the Reward Points for air travel (just used it for my
50th HS Reunion). It is restricted to only simple round trips to and
from a single destination (no 1-way, triangle, or anything fancy) and
must be booked at least 8 weeks in advance, with plenty of "no-go"
blackout dates. PITA as we wanted to fly from Phoenix into Tampa and
out of Ft. Lauderdale. Had to fly back to Tampa 1-way to catch the
return trip.

Chip

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Will Trice
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:37 am
Guest
Default User wrote:

Quote:
Debit cards can be used for such purposes, I believe. I recently rented
a car online, and there was a choice for debit cards. As I recall,
there would be extra steps if one went that route, but as I was using
Discover I didn't investigate.

A year or two ago I rented a car with a debit card no problem. I was
forced to do this as both my primary and backup credit cards that I
carry in my wallet went offline at the same time. I was standing at the
rental counter when both my cards got rejected so I thought I was
screwed. Previous to this trip rental companies didn't take debit
cards, but the agent told my that the week before my arrival they had
started taking them, so I was able to use my debit card. I think the
only trick is that they put a hold on a large amount in your account as
a deposit on the car.

-Will

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Default User
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:59 am
Guest
Chip wrote:

Quote:
Default User wrote:
Chip wrote:

I totally agree with you. Now if I could get my Reward Points
"rewards" w/o jumping through PITA hoops, my life would be serene.

What card do you have, and what hoops?


Visa Platinum from my local Credit Union @6.9% w/no annual fee. Pay
it off every month.

We usually use the Reward Points for air travel (just used it for my
50th HS Reunion). It is restricted [remainder snipped]

Ah. I don't travel much. The Citicard I use has a reward point system.
I get gift cards because I don't want to spend time figuring out if the
merchandise is a good deal. I'd just rather have $50 card for gas or
Target or whatever. Discover just has cash, and you can also get
bonuses when you use it to buy from their stable of "partners".



Brian

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Mark Freeland
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:00 pm
Guest
"Douglas Johnson" <post@classtech.com> wrote in message
news:jumba4l294o5s6806ppcrnurcgjckv70fn@4ax.com...
Quote:
I know someone who has trouble managing a credit card. By using a debit
card,
they make sure they stay out of trouble. It's a mind game, but whatever
works...

A theory of debit cards providing discipline, as I understand it, is that
one cannot spend more than one's current assets. The problem with this
theory is that, just as with a credit card, one is still capable of spending
more than one's current capital (assets less liabilities).

Specifically, because debit cards are generally linked to checking accounts,
one can write checks and then draw cash (via debit card) from the account
before the checks clear. Obviously this can result in bounced checks,
overdraft fees, etc.

The "keep the savings" program exacerbates this problem by drawing more cash
out of the checking account, increasing the risk of bounced checks - though
the transferred cash isn't even being spent!

Mark Freeland
nNeEwTs@nyc.rr.com

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joetaxpayer
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:00 pm
Guest
Quote:
The "keep the savings" program exacerbates this problem by drawing more cash
out of the checking account, increasing the risk of bounced checks - though
the transferred cash isn't even being spent!

Mark Freeland
nNeEwTs@nyc.rr.com

In the same way Elizabeth can't understand the use of debit cards (and I
strongly share with her view), I can't understand the appeal of the
"keep the change" program. I make a $49.75 purchase, and instead of
having nearly a dollar in cash come to me as a bonus (or 50 frequent
flier miles, etc.) $0.25 of my own money gets moved from my checking to
my savings account? Is the practice of emptying one's pocket into a jar
every night only to have the pleasure of paying nearly 10% to have
Coinstar count it for you every couple months so common that this
program was inevitable?

Joe

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Will Trice
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:00 pm
Guest
Default User wrote:
Quote:
The Citicard I use has a reward point system.
I get gift cards because I don't want to spend time figuring out if the
merchandise is a good deal. I'd just rather have $50 card for gas or
Target or whatever. Discover just has cash, and you can also get
bonuses when you use it to buy from their stable of "partners".

I also use a Citi card for the reward points, but I just got a mailer
from Countrywide for a credit card that pays back 2% of purchases
towards my mortgage (I have a Countrywide mortgage). Looks interesting...

-Will

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