wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:oep494di9a6kvcg5aqitg51sb3vb501qb9@4ax.com...



"Drill, drill, drill", shouts Pudlow daily on his
financial show.
If I here any more of these greedy, short-sighted,
bastards
repeating that idiotic mantra I might have to vote
Democrat.

ted

No doubt that there needs to be more domestic drilling for
oil. Along with that is development of non-petroleum forms
of energy. It isn't one or the other.

"saddlebag" <saddle...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:71e35f0c-b51f-4837-ab80-afec49fca7c9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 1, 9:09 pm, "NapalmHeart" <olsonfamNOS...@iserv.net> wrote:





wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:oep494di9a6kvcg5aqitg51sb3vb501qb9@4ax.com...

"Drill, drill, drill", shouts Pudlow daily on his
financial show.
If I here any more of these greedy, short-sighted,
bastards
repeating that idiotic mantra I might have to vote
Democrat.

ted

No doubt that there needs to be more domestic drilling for
oil. Along with that is development of non-petroleum forms
of energy. It isn't one or the other.

Won't do a bit of good unless they build more refineries. How about
one in your backyard?

[JG] Fine with me, but there's no water access.

Looking at the big picture, through, I find it interesting that some
people
complain about all the high paying blue collar jobs going overseas, and
then
when somebody suggests building a place that provides high paying blue
collar jobs, the same people get all NIMBY.

The Texas Gulf Coast has no issue with more refineries.

The Texas Gulf Coast
also has some of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation and their
real
estate prices haven't dropped a dime over the last few years.

There's a lesson there.

"saddlebag" <saddle...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:ca87928b-e941-4007-9ee9-72a9c81280e6@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 2, 1:01 am, "John Galt" <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem, as I  see it, is that certain Americans have become BOTH myopic
AND farsighted on this issue, and forget what's in between. You say "drill",
and the myopic response is "that's 10 years off", followed by the farsighted
(50 years +) observation "We need green alternatives."

Well, that's dandy. What's going to bridge the gap between the two, if they
don't want to develop alternatives? The real risk here is that the myopics
win (Congress being current run by the Queen of the Myopics), fuel goes to
$10 a gallon, and absorbs such a large % of our corporate and governmental
budgets that R&D gets cut, and we never get to the alternatives.

If people don't want to drill, that's fine -- but it's madness to be against
drilling AND expansion of coal plants AND coal. The cost of a BTU will
skyrocket, and that's a receipe for disaster.

Yeah, oil's gotten expensive and Texans have oil and are cashing in.

[JG] Absolutely. The Californians could be too, but..........well, I guess
they prefer scads of unsold homes and government workers making minimum
wage. Their call.

Brazil is virtually oil independent today using renewable sugarcane.

They not only refine it for their cars, but they use the fuel to power
their refineries.

saddlebag <saddle...@aol.com> wrote:
Brazil is virtually oil independent today using renewable sugarcane.

Nonsense.

They not only refine it for their cars, but they use the fuel to power
their refineries.

Yes, they do. And their run on gasohol, or are dual-fuel. Flex-fuel, as
they call it. Guess what the other fuel is?

And what fuels their power stations? And their aircraft? And their
plastics industry? And their diesel trucks? And their diesel buses?

Oh, and Brazil has oil of its own, too.

Brazil has probably got the most widely-used vehicle biofuel system on
the planet, but if you think that makes the country "virtually
oil-independent" you're very wrong.

Brazil is virtually oil independent today using renewable sugarcane.

Nonsense.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

"Over the past three decades Brazil has worked to create a viable
alternative to gasoline. With its sugarcane-based fuel, the nation may
become energy independent this year. Brazil's ethanol program, which
originated in the 1970s in response to the uncertainties of the oil
market, has enjoyed intermittent success. Still, many Brazilians are
driving "flexible fuel" cars that run on either ethanol or gasoline
and allow the consumer to fill up with whichever option is cheaper –
often ethanol. Countries with large fuel bills such as India and China
are following Brazil's progress closely. The US is taking small steps
towards the use of ethanol, but its process, relying on corn, is
lengthier and more expensive. In addition, countries such as Japan and
Sweden are importing ethanol from Brazil to help fulfill their
environmental obligations under the Kyoto Protocol. Running cars on
carbohydrates instead of fossil fuels may not be a new idea, and
ethanol has drawbacks, but the fuel offers an attractive alternative
as oil prices climb. - YaleGlobal"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5358623

saddlebag <saddle...@aol.com> wrote:
Brazil is virtually oil independent today using renewable sugarcane..

Nonsense.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

"Over the past three decades Brazil has worked to create a viable
alternative to gasoline. With its sugarcane-based fuel, the nation may
become energy independent this year. Brazil's ethanol program, which
originated in the 1970s in response to the uncertainties of the oil
market, has enjoyed intermittent success. Still, many Brazilians are
driving "flexible fuel" cars that run on either ethanol or gasoline
and allow the consumer to fill up with whichever option is cheaper –
often ethanol. Countries with large fuel bills such as India and China
are following Brazil's progress closely. The US is taking small steps
towards the use of ethanol, but its process, relying on corn, is
lengthier and more expensive. In addition, countries such as Japan and
Sweden are importing ethanol from Brazil to help fulfill their
environmental obligations under the Kyoto Protocol. Running cars on
carbohydrates instead of fossil fuels may not be a new idea, and
ethanol has drawbacks, but the fuel offers an attractive alternative
as oil prices climb. - YaleGlobal"

Thank you for confirming what I posted.

In other words, gasoline (petrol, to me) is not the only use of oil. And
just because Brazil is using more ethanol-based fuel for its vehicles
*does not* make it "virtually oil independent".

I notice you snipped my listing of other oil uses. This does you no
credit.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5358623

"The new rig is expected to end decades of Brazilian dependence on
foreign oil"

That is *not* the same as "oil-independent".

I think you should leave it there, don't you?

On Aug 2, 1:01 am, "John Galt" <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
"saddlebag" <saddle...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:71e35f0c-b51f-4837-ab80-afec49fca7c9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 1, 9:09 pm, "NapalmHeart" <olsonfamNOS...@iserv.net> wrote:





wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:oep494di9a6kvcg5aqitg51sb3vb501qb9@4ax.com...

"Drill, drill, drill", shouts Pudlow daily on his
financial show.
If I here any more of these greedy, short-sighted,
bastards
repeating that idiotic mantra I might have to vote
Democrat.

ted

No doubt that there needs to be more domestic drilling for
oil. Along with that is development of non-petroleum forms
of energy. It isn't one or the other.

Won't do a bit of good unless they build more refineries.  How about
one in your backyard?

[JG] Fine with me, but there's no water access.

Looking at the big picture, through, I find it interesting that some people
complain about all the high paying blue collar jobs going overseas, and then
when somebody suggests building a place that provides high paying blue
collar jobs, the same people get all NIMBY.

Losing our ability to be self sufficient or even an adequate trading
partner is a separate issue. The few jobs created by a refinery or
two is hardly a strong argument to build them.

You could liken our addiction to oil to a heroin addict. We hate what
we have to endure to get our fix and know if we want to survive we are
going to have to get off the smack, but we'd rather rationalize that
if we could just find a better supplier everything would be ok.

The Texas Gulf Coast has no issue with more refineries.

Must be an issue somewhere or they'd be getting built.

The Texas Gulf Coast
also has some of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation and their real
estate prices haven't dropped a dime over the last few years.

There's a lesson there.

Yeah, oil's gotten expensive and Texans have oil and are cashing in.

"saddlebag" <saddlebag@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ca87928b-e941-4007-9ee9-72a9c81280e6@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 2, 1:01 am, "John Galt" <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
"saddlebag" <saddle...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:71e35f0c-b51f-4837-ab80-afec49fca7c9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 1, 9:09 pm, "NapalmHeart" <olsonfamNOS...@iserv.net> wrote:





wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:oep494di9a6kvcg5aqitg51sb3vb501qb9@4ax.com...

"Drill, drill, drill", shouts Pudlow daily on his
financial show.
If I here any more of these greedy, short-sighted,
bastards
repeating that idiotic mantra I might have to vote
Democrat.

ted

No doubt that there needs to be more domestic drilling for
oil. Along with that is development of non-petroleum forms
of energy. It isn't one or the other.

Won't do a bit of good unless they build more refineries. How about
one in your backyard?

[JG] Fine with me, but there's no water access.

Looking at the big picture, through, I find it interesting that some
people
complain about all the high paying blue collar jobs going overseas, and
then
when somebody suggests building a place that provides high paying blue
collar jobs, the same people get all NIMBY.

Losing our ability to be self sufficient or even an adequate trading
partner is a separate issue. The few jobs created by a refinery or
two is hardly a strong argument to build them.

[JG] It's one reason. The better one is that standard of living is tied to
energy consumption. You want to improve society's standard of living, you
accept an increase in consumption. You want to lower society's standard of
living, by all means, lower consumption.

You could liken our addiction to oil to a heroin addict. We hate what
we have to endure to get our fix and know if we want to survive we are
going to have to get off the smack, but we'd rather rationalize that
if we could just find a better supplier everything would be ok.

[JG] Well.....whatever analogy floats your boat. The larger issue is that
demand for BTU's is going to keep increasing in the US, and the rate of
increase will, for at least a half a century, be greater than the ability of
green alternatives to keep up with. So, we can either lower our standard of
living, OR drill, OR use traditional alternatives to oil, which is coal.

The problem, as I see it, is that certain Americans have become BOTH myopic
AND farsighted on this issue, and forget what's in between. You say "drill",
and the myopic response is "that's 10 years off", followed by the farsighted
(50 years +) observation "We need green alternatives."

Well, that's dandy. What's going to bridge the gap between the two, if they
don't want to develop alternatives? The real risk here is that the myopics
win (Congress being current run by the Queen of the Myopics), fuel goes to
$10 a gallon, and absorbs such a large % of our corporate and governmental
budgets that R&D gets cut, and we never get to the alternatives.

If people don't want to drill, that's fine -- but it's madness to be against
drilling AND expansion of coal plants AND coal. The cost of a BTU will
skyrocket, and that's a receipe for disaster.

The Texas Gulf Coast has no issue with more refineries.

Must be an issue somewhere or they'd be getting built.

[JG] They are. You should see what's under construction in Beaumont.
Biggest in the world.

The Texas Gulf Coast
also has some of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation and their
real
estate prices haven't dropped a dime over the last few years.

There's a lesson there.

Yeah, oil's gotten expensive and Texans have oil and are cashing in.

[JG] Absolutely. The Californians could be too, but..........well, I guess
they prefer scads of unsold homes and government workers making minimum
wage. Their call.

I should have said independent of foreign oil.

"saddlebag" <saddle...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:71e35f0c-b51f-4837-ab80-afec49fca7c9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 1, 9:09 pm, "NapalmHeart"
olsonfamNOS...@iserv.net
wrote:





wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:oep494di9a6kvcg5aqitg51sb3vb501qb9@4ax.com...

"Drill, drill, drill", shouts Pudlow daily on his
financial show.
If I here any more of these greedy, short-sighted,
bastards
repeating that idiotic mantra I might have to vote
Democrat.

ted

No doubt that there needs to be more domestic drilling
for
oil. Along with that is development of non-petroleum
forms
of energy. It isn't one or the other.

Won't do a bit of good unless they build more refineries.
How about
one in your backyard?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My backyard isn't big enough.

I'm also not in a good
location for such an operation. Why not one off Cape Cod
next to the windmills that Ted Kennedy nixed?

I actually hope they do drill to prove that the Republicans are wrong
about the amount of oil to be discovered if we just drill, drill, drill.

It's end game for the GOP.

Doug wrote:
I actually hope they do drill to prove that the Republicans are wrong
about the amount of oil to be discovered if we just drill, drill, drill.

It's end game for the GOP.

By the time anything comes of the new oil leases, the current spike in
oil prices will be long forgotten. They won't fall back to where they
were, but I bet they'll go under $3/gallon and everybody will be happy
and forget about fixing the problem, and sustainable energy will be
relatively "unfordable" again.

The US is incapable of addressing any problem that goes into remission
for more than a month at a time.

The US is incapable of addressing any problem that goes into remission
for more than a month at a time.

Brazil has probably got the most widely-used vehicle biofuel system on the planet, but if you think that makes the country "virtually
oil-independent" you're very wrong.

BMW K1100LT  Ducati 750SS  Yamaha XT600E  Honda CB400F
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

themoni...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 2, 11:25 am, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

Brazil has probably got the most widely-used vehicle biofuel system on
the >planet, but if you think that makes the country "virtually
oil-independent" you're very wrong.

Listen you old shitbag, the only arsehole in this thread who is very
wrong is you, you ignorant old fuck.  Go away, we don't need you in
this group.  You're just too stupid to participate.

Well, as the OP has admitted his mistake, and you're coming to the
thread two weeks later......

*Shrug*

(And, and do learn how to snip sigs, dearie)

--
BMW K1100LT  Ducati 750SS  Yamaha XT600E  Honda CB400F
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

On Aug 2, 11:25 am, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

Brazil has probably got the most widely-used vehicle biofuel system on
the >planet, but if you think that makes the country "virtually
oil-independent" you're very wrong.


Listen you old shitbag, the only arsehole in this thread who is very
wrong is you, you ignorant old fuck. Go away, we don't need you in
this group. You're just too stupid to participate.

Well, as the OP has admitted his mistake, and you're coming to the

Hey homo, watch you you're calling dearie.

when I want, so drill it up your arse like you probably do with your
gayboy buddies.  And take your dearie and shove it there too.  You're
still an old shitbag who doesn't know fuck.

Yeah, it's well-known that everyone on Usenet practically *cowers*
before your overwhelming itellectual onslaught.

Hate to have to point this out to ya, Twib, ol' man, but
you misspelled "giggles" in the above.