That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god to
dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe to
reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

On Jul 28, 2:08 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:

That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god to
dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe to
reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Populations are already leveling off and even declining in a good part
of the world.  Europe is below replacement births, USA is about at
replacement level and population increase in USA is mostly
immigration, Japan and Russia are in decline.

In fact, of the large economies only India is at above replacement-
level birth rate.

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE planet
can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to do the math.
They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit around
in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy trying to
pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first place. Ages
ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money with interest.
The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy and people think
nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern economies
operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more consumers and more
consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits as unsustainable when
other species emulate them. Lemmings headed toward a cliff are the
classic example. Why do people think limits don't apply to them? We push
them temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists won't
admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems for a long
time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do get colonized, it
will be like moving an unpayable balance from one credit card to
another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by annual
world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as of 2009. CIA
estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year. Pronatalists like
QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are profoundly ignorant of limits and
show no signs of heeding evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer but
economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that analogy. They
will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of major resources, like
water, land and oil, give them no other options.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

On Jul 28, 2:08 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:

That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god
to dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe
to reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Populations are already leveling off and even declining in a good part
of the world. Europe is below replacement births, USA is about at
replacement level and population increase in USA is mostly immigration,
Japan and Russia are in decline.

In fact, of the large economies only India is at above replacement-
level birth rate.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:42:06 -0700, AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com
wrote:

On Jul 28, 2:08 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com
wrote:

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits
and quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a
god to dictate the future. Regrettably it will require another
catastrophe to reduce the population bomb. Or Mother Nature will do
it herself.

Populations are already leveling off and even declining in a good
part of the world. Europe is below replacement births, USA is about
at replacement level and population increase in USA is mostly
immigration, Japan and Russia are in decline.

In fact, of the large economies only India is at above replacement-
level birth rate.

Add Hindus to the above.

Africa, too, would be exploding were it not for AIDS.

Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia are still growing also.

Religion and/or ignorance are the cause of most ills.

E.A. <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE
planet can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to do
the math. They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit
around in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy
trying to pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first
place. Ages ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money
with interest. The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy
and people think nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern economies
operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more consumers and more
consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits as unsustainable when
other species emulate them. Lemmings headed toward a cliff are the
classic example. Why do people think limits don't apply to them? We
push them temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists
won't admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems
for a long time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do
get colonized, it will be like moving an unpayable balance from one
credit card to another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by annual
world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as of 2009.
CIA estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year. Pronatalists like
QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are profoundly ignorant of limits
and show no signs of heeding evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer
but economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that
analogy. They will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of
major resources, like water, land and oil, give them no other
options.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off,

water resources reached their limits

and quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their
trust in a god to dictate the future. Regrettably it will
require another catastrophe to reduce the population bomb.

Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Curly Surmudgeon wrote
E.A. <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE
planet can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to do
the math. They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit
around in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy
trying to pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first
place. Ages ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money
with interest. The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy
and people think nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern economies
operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more consumers and more
consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits as unsustainable when
other species emulate them. Lemmings headed toward a cliff are the
classic example. Why do people think limits don't apply to them? We
push them temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists
won't admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems
for a long time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do get
colonized, it will be like moving an unpayable balance from one credit
card to another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by annual
world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as of 2009. CIA
estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year. Pronatalists like
QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are profoundly ignorant of limits
and show no signs of heeding evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer
but economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that analogy.
They will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of major
resources, like water, land and oil, give them no other options.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off,

Like hell it did.

http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-7/
documents/E-7_Report_1900-Jul08.xls

water resources reached their limits

Like hell they did.

and quality of life began to decline.

Like hell it did.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god
to dictate the future. Regrettably it will require another catastrophe
to reduce the population bomb.

Like hell it will. NOT ONE modern first world country is even self
replacing on population now if you take out immigration.

Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Not a chance. We've moved a hell of a long way past being at the whim of
that anymore.

We dont even have to watch our kids die in droughts anymore.

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:53:17 +1000, "Rod Speed"
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote
E.A. <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE
planet can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to
do the math. They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit
around in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy
trying to pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first
place. Ages ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money
with interest. The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy
and people think nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern
economies operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more
consumers and more consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits
as unsustainable when other species emulate them. Lemmings headed
toward a cliff are the classic example. Why do people think limits
don't apply to them? We push them temporarily with technology,
that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists
won't admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems
for a long time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do
get colonized, it will be like moving an unpayable balance from
one credit card to another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by
annual world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as
of 2009. CIA estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year.
Pronatalists like QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are
profoundly ignorant of limits and show no signs of heeding
evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer
but economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that
analogy. They will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of
major resources, like water, land and oil, give them no other
options.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off,

Like hell it did.

Do you believe in "hell"?

http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-7/
documents/E-7_Report_1900-Jul08.xls

Your own spreadsheet proves my assertion.

In the 50's California population grew in the 4% range dwindling to just about 1% in the 90's.

Here it is in graphical format:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldgrgraph.php

Note the two peaks, one short in the late 1950's the other spanning
the 1960's 70's and 80's. California was a magnified version due to
the booming economy.

water resources reached their limits

Like hell they did.

Another unconvincing denial.

Hell is living in SoCal without water.

and quality of life began to decline.

Like hell it did.

You've failed to convince me

even though I agree that quality of life in California has gone to hell.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their
trust in a god to dictate the future. Regrettably it will
require another catastrophe to reduce the population bomb.

Like hell it will. NOT ONE modern first world country is even self
replacing on population now if you take out immigration.

Uhm, no single country is being discussed.

_World_ population continues to grow:

Monthly World population figures:

07/01/09 6,768,167,712
08/01/09 6,774,705,647
09/01/09 6,781,243,583
10/01/09 6,787,570,618
11/01/09 6,794,108,554
12/01/09 6,800,435,588
01/01/10 6,806,973,524
02/01/10 6,813,511,460
03/01/10 6,819,416,692
04/01/10 6,825,954,628
05/01/10 6,832,281,663
06/01/10 6,838,819,599
07/01/10 6,845,146,634

In graph form, population 1950-2050:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopgraph.php

For other substantiation:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopinfo.php

Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Not a chance. We've moved a hell of a long way past being at the whim of that anymore.

I hear ignorance talking.

What do you think SARS, Swine Flu

and AIDS

have in common?

We dont even have to watch our kids die in droughts anymore.

True, you needn't watch.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:18:13 -0700, "E.A." <enough_alre...@lycos.com
wrote:

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE planet
can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to do the math.
They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit around
in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy trying to
pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first place. Ages
ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money with interest.
The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy and people think
nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern economies
operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more consumers and more
consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits as unsustainable when
other species emulate them. Lemmings headed toward a cliff are the
classic example. Why do people think limits don't apply to them? We push
them temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists won't
admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems for a long
time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do get colonized, it
will be like moving an unpayable balance from one credit card to
another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by annual
world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as of 2009. CIA
estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year. Pronatalists like
QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are profoundly ignorant of limits and
show no signs of heeding evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer but
economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that analogy. They
will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of major resources, like
water, land and oil, give them no other options.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god to
dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe to
reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

--
Regards, Curly
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------------
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Trojan Covered Lollipops
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------------

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:42:06 -0700, AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com
wrote:





On Jul 28, 2:08 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:

That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god
to dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe
to reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Populations are already leveling off and even declining in a good part
of the world.  Europe is below replacement births, USA is about at
replacement level and population increase in USA is mostly immigration,
Japan and Russia are in decline.

In fact, of the large economies only India is at above replacement-
level birth rate.

Add Hindus to the above.  Africa, too, would be exploding were it not for
AIDS.  Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia are still growing also.

Religion and/or ignorance are the cause of most ills.

--
Regards, Curly
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Trojan Covered Lollipops
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:53:17 +1000, "Rod Speed"
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote
E.A. <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE
planet can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to do
the math. They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit
around in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy
trying to pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first
place. Ages ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money
with interest. The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy
and people think nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern economies
operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more consumers and more
consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits as unsustainable
when other species emulate them. Lemmings headed toward a cliff are
the classic example. Why do people think limits don't apply to them?
We push them temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists
won't admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems
for a long time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do
get colonized, it will be like moving an unpayable balance from one
credit card to another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by
annual world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as of
2009. CIA estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year.
Pronatalists like QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are profoundly
ignorant of limits and show no signs of heeding evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer
but economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that
analogy. They will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of
major resources, like water, land and oil, give them no other
options.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off,

Like hell it did.

Do you believe in "hell"?

http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-7/
documents/E-7_Report_1900-Jul08.xls

Your own spreadsheet proves my assertion.

Like hell it does.

In the 50's California population grew in the 4% range dwindling to
just about 1% in the 90's.

Pity about the increase rate in 95 and 96, much lower than since 2000

Here it is in graphical format:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldgrgraph.php

Thats not the population of california being discussed there.

Note the two peaks, one short in the late 1950's the other spanning the
1960's 70's and 80's. California was a magnified version due to the
booming economy.

Your claim about post 2000 california is just plain wrong.

water resources reached their limits

Like hell they did.

Another unconvincing denial.

YOU made the claim.

YOU get to substantiate the claim.

THATS how it works.

Hell is living in SoCal without water.

There is no where in SoCal without water.

and quality of life began to decline.

Like hell it did.

You've failed to convince me

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
irrelevant.

What may or may not convince you in spades.

even though I agree that quality of life in California has gone to
hell.

Clearly those who keep moving there disagree.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god
to dictate the future. Regrettably it will require another
catastrophe to reduce the population bomb.

Like hell it will. NOT ONE modern first world country is even self
replacing on population now if you take out immigration.

Uhm, no single country is being discussed.

All first modern first world countrys isnt a single country, stupid.

_World_ population continues to grow:

And when NOT ONE modern first world country is even self replacing on
population now if you take out immigration, your stupid pig ignorant
claim that another catastrophe will be required is clearly just plain
wrong with at least the modern first world.

Monthly World population figures:

07/01/09 6,768,167,712
08/01/09 6,774,705,647
09/01/09 6,781,243,583
10/01/09 6,787,570,618
11/01/09 6,794,108,554
12/01/09 6,800,435,588
01/01/10 6,806,973,524
02/01/10 6,813,511,460
03/01/10 6,819,416,692
04/01/10 6,825,954,628
05/01/10 6,832,281,663
06/01/10 6,838,819,599
07/01/10 6,845,146,634

In graph form, population 1950-2050:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopgraph.php

Doesnt say a damned thing about your stupid pig ignorant claim about a
castrophe being required.

For other substantiation:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopinfo.php

Doesnt say a damned thing about your stupid pig ignorant claim about a
castrophe being required.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Curly Surmudgeon wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Curly Surmudgeon wrote
E.A. <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE
planet can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering
to do the math. They are too busy counting money derived from
debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit
around in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So
busy trying to pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in
the first place. Ages ago it was considered immoral and illegal
to lend money with interest. The former sin of "usury" is now
driving the economy and people think nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern
economies operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more
consumers and more consumption. Interestingly, we see those
traits as unsustainable when other species emulate them.
Lemmings headed toward a cliff are the classic example. Why do
people think limits don't apply to them? We push them
temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists
won't admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound
problems for a long time, if ever. Given human nature, if other
planets do get colonized, it will be like moving an unpayable
balance from one credit card to another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by
annual world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as
of 2009. CIA estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year.
Pronatalists like QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are
profoundly ignorant of limits and show no signs of heeding
evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal
cancer but economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying
that analogy. They will keep brushing aside evidence until
dearths of major resources, like water, land and oil, give them
no other options.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off,

Like hell it did.

Do you believe in "hell"?

http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-7/
documents/E-7_Report_1900-Jul08.xls

Your own spreadsheet proves my assertion.

Like hell it does.

In the 50's California population grew in the 4% range dwindling to
just about 1% in the 90's.

Pity about the increase rate in 95 and 96, much lower than since 2000

Here it is in graphical format:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldgrgraph.php

Thats not the population of california being discussed there.

Note the two peaks, one short in the late 1950's the other spanning
the 1960's 70's and 80's. California was a magnified version due
to the booming economy.

Your claim about post 2000 california is just plain wrong.

water resources reached their limits

Like hell they did.

Another unconvincing denial.

YOU made the claim.

YOU get to substantiate the claim.

THATS how it works.

Hell is living in SoCal without water.

There is no where in SoCal without water.

and quality of life began to decline.

Like hell it did.

You've failed to convince me

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
irrelevant.

What may or may not convince you in spades.

even though I agree that quality of life in California has gone to
hell.

Clearly those who keep moving there disagree.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a
god to dictate the future. Regrettably it will require another
catastrophe to reduce the population bomb.

Like hell it will. NOT ONE modern first world country is even self
replacing on population now if you take out immigration.

Uhm, no single country is being discussed.

All first modern first world countrys isnt a single country, stupid.

_World_ population continues to grow:

And when NOT ONE modern first world country is even self replacing on
population now if you take out immigration, your stupid pig ignorant
claim that another catastrophe will be required is clearly just plain
wrong with at least the modern first world.

Monthly World population figures:

07/01/09 6,768,167,712
08/01/09 6,774,705,647
09/01/09 6,781,243,583
10/01/09 6,787,570,618
11/01/09 6,794,108,554
12/01/09 6,800,435,588
01/01/10 6,806,973,524
02/01/10 6,813,511,460
03/01/10 6,819,416,692
04/01/10 6,825,954,628
05/01/10 6,832,281,663
06/01/10 6,838,819,599
07/01/10 6,845,146,634

In graph form, population 1950-2050:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopgraph.php

Doesnt say a damned thing about your stupid pig ignorant claim about
a castrophe being required.

For other substantiation:
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopinfo.php

Doesnt say a damned thing about your stupid pig ignorant claim about
a castrophe being required.

You're moving the goalpost.

Population growth is continuing despite your
reference to immigration to first world countries.

I'm finished with you, troll.

Smoosh!

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:18:13 -0700, "E.A." <enough_already@lycos.com
wrote:

The biggest problem with the economy is that it presumes a FINITE planet
can sustain indefinite growth. Few people are bothering to do the math.
They are too busy counting money derived from debt.

Detached from the physical world that keeps them alive, they sit around
in offices dreaming up schemes that lack real value. So busy trying to
pay off debt that they forget it's unnatural in the first place. Ages
ago it was considered immoral and illegal to lend money with interest.
The former sin of "usury" is now driving the economy and people think
nothing of it.

With so many aspects of life based on chronic debt, modern economies
operate like pyramid schemes, always seeking more consumers and more
consumption. Interestingly, we see those traits as unsustainable when
other species emulate them. Lemmings headed toward a cliff are the
classic example. Why do people think limits don't apply to them? We push
them temporarily with technology, that's all.

All species are stuck on the same finite planet. Techno-optimists won't
admit that space colonization can't solve earthbound problems for a long
time, if ever. Given human nature, if other planets do get colonized, it
will be like moving an unpayable balance from one credit card to
another.

Too much of what's being called "economic growth" is driven by annual
world population growth that exceeds 75,000,000 people as of 2009. CIA
estimates range as high as 79,000,000 per year. Pronatalists like
QuiverFull and the Catholic Church are profoundly ignorant of limits and
show no signs of heeding evidence.

Uncontrolled growth with no foreseen limits is like terminal cancer but
economists, businessmen and politicians keep denying that analogy. They
will keep brushing aside evidence until dearths of major resources, like
water, land and oil, give them no other options.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California. Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god to
dictate the future. Regrettably it will require another catastrophe to
reduce the population bomb. Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

"Curly Surmudgeon" <Curl...@live.com> wrote:
"E.A." <enough_alre...@lycos.com> wrote:

"How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.

That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god to
dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe to
reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Why don't you do the world a favor and just off yourself?

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:42:06 -0700, AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com
wrote:

On Jul 28, 2:08 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:

That is much of what ails California.  Built upon a boom economy
California grew tremendously from th 1950's until about 2000 when
population began to taper off, water resources reached their limits and
quality of life began to decline.

Not just Catholics but Mormons and Muslims place their trust in a god
to dictate the future.  Regrettably it will require another catastrophe
to reduce the population bomb.  Or Mother Nature will do it herself.

Populations are already leveling off and even declining in a good part
of the world. Europe is below replacement births, USA is about at
replacement level and population increase in USA is mostly immigration,
Japan and Russia are in decline.

In fact, of the large economies only India is at above replacement-
level birth rate.

Add Hindus to the above. Africa, too, would be exploding were it not for
AIDS. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia are still growing also.

I wonder. If people in the dark coninent can perpetuate themselves at

Religion and/or ignorance are the cause of most ills.

the "catastrophe" the curly's of the world are hoping will happen is
"socialism"...


" Book of DANIEL Chapter 12; Verse 1 "